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An unexamined life...

So, is Live Journal is scrambling anybody else's fics? I've had three of my older stories go all pear-shaped (or the digital equivalent) in the last couple of days. It's...unpleasant. I'm glad I archived to AO3, because otherwise I'd be back to Word files. Tsk.

I have a question about the invite clause for vampires in the Buffyverse. This was brought on by watching Supernatural, wherein the vampires have no such limitation, apparently. I'm wondering if the invitation rule applies to RVs that are the primary residence of a person. Let's just say it's a rogue demon hunter, for instance. I'll bet that this has been discussed before, but I'm curious now. Help me BarbC Obiwan! What are your thoughts?

In other news McDiva and her friends worked out that Joss Whedon really has a thing for triggers.

Exhibit A: Spike's "Early One Morning" trigger
Exhibit B: River's "Fruity Oaty Bar" trigger
Exhibit C: November's "Three Flowers in a Vase" trigger

See? Trigger Happy! I'm as big a fan of the Manchurian Candidate as anybody, but wow!

I hope everybody has a wonderful holiday tomorrow (or just a regular day, if that's how you play it) and that we get lots and lots of rocket launcher fic in our stockings this year!



( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
Nov. 26th, 2009 02:57 am (UTC)
I reckon the invitation spell deals with fixed locations - as in, fixed on the ground.

So an RV that is driven to somewhere different every night, no. An RV that stays in the same spot for a while, possibly.
Nov. 26th, 2009 03:47 am (UTC)
Temporary lodgings that are fixed in location, such as hotel rooms, are not protected by the invite clause. Rental apartments and dorm rooms apparently are. Fixed and semi-permanent must be the requirements. I wonder what the cut-off for permanence is? One month? One week? One semester?

I suppose the RV answer is in what happened to the gypsy caravan after Angelus was cursed with a soul. (Unless somebody invited Spike into that wagon. Doubtful.) In that case covered wagons, tents, and teepees would also not be covered. Dang! So many exceptions!
Nov. 26th, 2009 03:11 am (UTC)
To me, it's more a matter of belief. If the RV is thought of as "home", then the invite clause would apply. If the person doesn't think of it that way, then it wouldn't. Sort of like how a cross or other religious symbol (IIRC) is only effective against vampires if the person using it believes in it.

Edited at 2009-11-26 03:11 am (UTC)
Nov. 26th, 2009 03:30 am (UTC)
Sort of like how a cross or other religious symbol (IIRC) is only effective against vampires if the person using it believes in it.

That's not the case in the Buffyverse. Crosses seem to work regardless of belief.
Nov. 26th, 2009 03:44 am (UTC)
I thought that there was something in an episode Angel about that, but perhaps I'm thinking of something else. Not that the rules are all that consistent sometimes. :-)
Nov. 26th, 2009 03:47 am (UTC)
*grins* Yeah, Buffyverse rules tend to be quite changeable...

In this case, though, I'm pretty sure it's never mentioned. Belief isn't a factor in the effectiveness of crosses, Bibles, and holy water.
Nov. 26th, 2009 04:14 am (UTC)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right, too. I think my recent watching of Being Human has me confused. In that, George's Star of David works against all vampires except for Mitchell, because Mitchell is his friend. I guess I prefer that kind of mythology (where the individual's beliefs make a difference and have power) so it stuck with me.

They'll have to take away my Buffyverse canon club membership now. ;-)
Nov. 26th, 2009 09:30 am (UTC)
Do we ever see anyone in the Buffyverse even try to use non-Christian religious symbols against vampires?

I still say Willow should have made herself some Shurikens Of David...
Nov. 26th, 2009 06:29 pm (UTC)
Oh! Or straw St. Brigid's crosses (not really a cross). So, now you've got me thinking on religious symbols that are misunderstood. Take the humble door wreath, for instance. I'm pretty sure it's a bit of pagan solstice something-or-other. But a friend reports her Jewish mother-in-law is convinced that it's a stand-in for Christ's crown of thorns. *shrug* Makes as much sense as an egg-bearing Easter bunny, or the equally confounding candy-bearing Easter Bells of Rome. *double shrug*

Have you noticed that people are funnier than anybody?
Nov. 26th, 2009 07:34 am (UTC)
Yeah, it would seem like any home ought to have the protection, regardless of its sturdiness. That's certainly the intent of the thing. I just don't know, though. Hotel/motel rooms don't seem to get the protection, and I keep thinking about that gypsy caravan. I admit the religious symbols that inflict damage on the unrighteous confuse me a bit, too. These rules! They are so very odd!
Nov. 26th, 2009 05:10 am (UTC)
My take is that if something is the primary private residence of a human being, it's subject to the invite clause, regardless of whether it's a house, an RV, or a cardboard box. Hotel rooms if you were there on a temporary basis, but would count if you were living in the hotel on a permanent basis (just as a rented apartment would count.)

Of course, a vampire may not be able to walk through the opening of that cardboard box, but they can kick the inhabitant to death through the very flimsy walls. *g* Or burn the place down, or whatever.

(And my take on the cross thing is that they work not because of belief, or because they're Christian, but because they're specifically symbolic of eternal spiritual life, which is anathema to the vampire's unnatural soulless state. Other symbols which stand for something similar could possibly work as well - ankhs, perhaps.)
Nov. 26th, 2009 07:24 am (UTC)
but because they're specifically symbolic of eternal spiritual life, which is anathema to the vampire's unnatural soulless state

Interesting. Perhaps also because it symbolizes selfless sacrifice...
Nov. 26th, 2009 07:41 am (UTC)
It seems like a home should provide that protection, even if it's not a sweet little craftsman bungalow, but there are exceptions. After posting, I remembered the gypsy caravan, and that seemed to answer that. Harrumph!

And the religious symbols are really doing a number on me. I mean, the soulless state thing, I can kind of see, but they seem to have continuing injurious effect on Angel and Spike, even when they are all souled up. *sobs* Now I'm more confused than ever!
Nov. 26th, 2009 08:14 am (UTC)
In my warped imagination, the gypsy things works like this: the WHOLE camp is the collective temporary home for the group of families (tribe?), because they live a big part of their lives together in the open even if they sleep in the caravans like single family units; thus, once the vampires were able to extort an invitation to sit by the fire or some such thing, they had access to everything in the camp site.
Or they just gained an invite holding someone by the throat.
Nov. 26th, 2009 09:39 am (UTC)
Oooh... that makes sense.
Nov. 26th, 2009 06:17 pm (UTC)
I like it! Except...doesn't that make the compound analogous to an apartment building? Vampires can enter multi-unit buildings, but not individual units without an invite. But maybe it's more like a fortress stronghold, wherein there are many individual families, but only one head of household? We never saw our vamps try to storm a castle, so it's hard to say. Maybe we never saw it because they never tried it, knowing they'd bounce off the barrier!
Nov. 26th, 2009 07:20 pm (UTC)
Ask anybody who lives in a condominium if they feel like sharing...:)
And now I want the series with vampires and fortresses!
Nov. 26th, 2009 08:17 am (UTC)
Eeek, no, I hadn't spotted any fic problems. Maybe I'll do the archive thing after all (archivist = total slob at preserving my own stuff).

Triggers are great, because they distance the character we like (and all three listed are definitely designed to appeal to fans) from the horrible things they do. While still allowing plot, deaths and developments like Mellie/November the doll. But they can be overused. Sigh.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
Nov. 26th, 2009 06:20 pm (UTC)
I'm not sick of 'em yet, but I can see how it could get to that point. I'm still sort of amazed that my kid and her posse figured this out, while it sort of blew by me. Were we that smart at 13?
Nov. 26th, 2009 12:15 pm (UTC)
I'll comment on the trigger, since everyone else seems to have commented on the RV/Invite thing. ;)

That is a lot of triggers... *starts singing Fruity Oaty Bars again*
I wonder if he worked a trigger in Toy Story as well. ^_^
Nov. 26th, 2009 06:21 pm (UTC)
Well, there's a sort of reverse trigger, when Buzz sees the commercial and realizes his entire life has been a lie. *sob* Hey! Buzz was the first doll! Except he is a doll. Hmmmm.
Nov. 26th, 2009 06:46 pm (UTC)
OMG you're right! About everything!
Nov. 27th, 2009 12:30 pm (UTC)
Riley chip also worked like a trigger,where do you put that
Nov. 28th, 2009 12:12 am (UTC)
Hmmm. Well Riley's chip compelled him to action, but not by hijacking his brain/free will. Or maybe it did! That would explain so much! (Not really.)
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )



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